you know, i've got a few partial rolls of fortifiber kicking around, and more than a few partial tubes of sealant, too. Introduction - Purpose of the experiment: Sealant adhesion and compatibility are critical parts of designing and specifying weatherproofing systems in buildings. MOISTOP SEALANT IS NOT COMPATIBLE WITH OXIME South African Coating info about waterproof flashing tape home depot Coating Solutions - 2022 Up-to-date Coating information only on Coating.co.za So if you want to build, for example, a Redgard shower the cure times start to add up: 1 day to build a mud shower pan. So if you want to build, for example, a Redgard shower the cure times start to add up: 1 day to build a mud shower pan. When subjected to high FortiFlash is a self-adhesive waterproof flashing membrane for windows that provides lasting protection against water intrusion in the most demanding environmental conditions. However, he did say that you need to use a moist stop sealant around your flashing. Xylenes The special adhesive formulation provides a wide application temperature range for . Part of the Henry1-2-3 moisture control system, FortiFlashButyl is designed to withstand the rigors of the jobsite and the elements, and is backed by an industry-leading 15-year warranty. FortiFlash Butyl delivers in the most demanding environments, providing a strong self-sealing barrier to protect windows, doors and through-wall penetrations. decks, and other problem areas. 210F. Repairs are covered for both materials and labor with a single point of contact. These include: ethylene oxide (EO), gamma, electron-beam, hydrogen peroxide gas plasma and steam (under controlled conditions). prior to acceptance.Moistop MSDS:Butyl benzyl phthalate wow As far as whether the new squishy/sticky products areshort-livedor toxic, you may have a point. Portions of this article are adapted/paraphrased with permission from Best Practices Guide to Residential Construction (found at page bottom, Click to Show or Hide) by Steven Bliss, courtesy of Wiley & Sons. Only one image can be added per comment but you can post as many comments, and therefore images, as you like. . is fortiflash compatible with tyvek. are better suited with a polyurethane based caulk. This is our first build, so we are new to all this. This is a dialog window which overlays the main content of the page. I think most guys don't know about the warranty stipulation. Standard acrylic caulks were a good bet if they contact only the white outer layer of the Fortiflash since that outer layer is some sort of protective film. So here is what happened: Fortiflash tape was used to flash the R.O.s on a house we just built. I'll try to find their wording, but I'm 98% sure that using any non Moistop sealant with their flashings will void their warranty. tapes, Grace Construction Products It is also ideally suited for flashing non-roofing horizontal conditions such as pot shelves, parapets, sill pans and recessed windows. We started noticing some black drips running down every here and there by some of the doors and windows and as we replaced a faulty door we solved the mystery. Butyl-based flashings are compatible with most construction 414. Despite the Try the search box just below, or if you prefer, post a question or comment in the Comments box below and we will respond promptly. yeah, what DavidM said- is that really what happened? Rubberized-asphalt flashings should also not come The membrane brings together the weather protection benefits of a self-adhered membrane, with the breathability of traditional housewraps. may degrade the butyl and undermine its ability to seal. On 2020-02-04 by Richard Fortiflash and Tyvek tape applied after window installation - YouTube 0:00 / 5:56 Fortiflash and Tyvek tape applied after window installation 33,304 views Jul 10, 2018 Rob shows us the last. When used as part of the Henry 1-2-3 Moisture Control System, FortiFlash is backed by an industry-leading 15-year warranty. It Rubberized-asphalt flashings should not A collection of one thousand construction details organized by climate and house part. www.polyguardproducts.com priming for a good bond. After buying a few tubes with the same result, I found out that this was happening on a regular basis and the construction supply house was going to discontinue selling the sealant. provide long-lasting waterproof protection if installed correctly. That's because Tyvek is made of 100% . are safe to bond to and which require priming. Reduces liability; Stops air leakage; Helps to prevent water intrusion; Economical saves time and labor . It can also be used for flashing non-roofing horizontal conditions such as pot shelves, parapets, sill pans and recessed windows. House wrap is most effective if it's tied *in* with the flashing and tape, but I firmly believe you can do just as good of job or better by proper flashing detail prior to house wrap. FortiFlash also is not compatible with some sealants. Found another link about FortFlash not adhering. Direct exposure of sealant to the adhesive side of FortiFlash can be detrimental if the amount of sealant exceeds Protects against water intrusion from the outside, while allowing moisture to escape from the inside. The 9" and 12" sizes have a split release feature providing the capability to remove each portion of the release sheet separately. In general, the rubberized asphalt (modified- If no one on this site has first hand stories, the issue may be minimal. for compatible surfaces and priming requirements. FortiFlash is not compatible with EPDM or exible (plasticized) Polyvinyl Chloride (PVC) based membranes. www.construction.tyvek.com Watch out: FortiFlash, for example, is not compatible with EPDM [rubber roofing] or flexible (plasticized) Polyvinyl Chloride (PVC) based products. 50F and will not bond much below 40F. are karmic justification for the products. www.avenco.com Watch out: FortiFlash, for example, is not compatible with EPDM [rubber roofing] or flexible (plasticized) Polyvinyl Chloride (PVC) based products. Crystalline Silica (Quartz)/ Silica Sand. FLASHING MEMBRANES PEEL & STICK at InspectApedia.com - online encyclopedia of building & environmental inspection, testing, diagnosis, repair, & problem prevention advice. facing that allows it to be molded easily to irregular That's where using a pre-fab metal or PVC pan flashing can help us as those are often fabricated with the necessary slope. Watch out: In cold climates, But I'm unclear why you'd need an adhesive seam sealant on roofing felt underlayment since if the felt is in poor shape or damaged normally it would be removed and replaced, or a small damage area would simply have new felt overlaid in that spot. FortiFlash is not compatible with EPDM or exible (plasticized) Polyvinyl Chloride (PVC) based membranes. FortiFlash Butyl delivers in the most demanding environments, providing a strong self-sealing barrier to protect windows, doors and through-wall penetrations - as well as nonroofing conditions such as recessed windows, sill pans, pot shelves and parapets. Become a member and get instant access to thousands of videos, how-tos, tool reviews, and design features. ft.) Grace Vycor Pro flashing, with its unique Grace Vycor Pro flashing, with its unique film and non-asphaltic, butyl-modified adhesive, provides premium protection against water infiltration in critical details, such as windows and doors. . Each manufacturer specifies which products The polyurethane also bonds very well to most . Some say these tapes are not compatible with the fluid applied products, but they sure stuck well in my test. higher material costs, labor savings make this product appealing Sonolastic NP 1 should not come in contact with oilbase Titanium dioxide Flexible, watertight seal for gutters, drainspouts, lap joints, flashings, roof vents, aluminum siding, and other metal joints. Share on Facebook . FortiFlash and Moistop E#-Z Seal are not compatible with some sealants. If you need an underlayment that seals around roofing nails you'd be smarter to use an ice-and-water shield product that is wider and more economical in this application than flashing tape. It is also ideally suited for flashing non-roofing horizontal conditions such as pot shelves, parapets, sill pans and recessed windows. Tyvek flashing seals out the rain water in the entire house really well, but it also seals in all the condensation caused by the inside/outside air temperature difference. Depending on design, I may be forced to use house wrap after installing the windows. HiCustomer I spoke with Jim (a technical advisor) at Fortifiber, and he said that the Fortiflash product is fine to be used with Dupont's Tyvek. essar ruia family tree; diy pvc cichlid caves. But I agree that that probably was not the issue in your case. techniques, and compatibility with surrounding materials. Tyvek and R-Wrap lost about 10% of the soapy water column in 2 hours. Rubberized asphalt tapes are incompatible with soft vinyl (but not hard vinyl) as their oils will dissolve the plasticizers, and they can cause staining. Elemax 5000 liquid flashing securely bonds to virtually all substrates and all Elemax companion products. Thanks. Portland gets pretty toasty in the summer, I hear. read more, As the use of smartphones and other digital devices continues to rise, it has become increasingly common for people to remain in constant contact with one another, with social media serving as a primary means of interaction. The unique adhesive coating bonds . Peel-and-stick flashing tape allows the wood to breathe because it is applied as a cap directly on top of joists and beams. Coincidentally, I just got a video e-mail from Hanley Wood showing a deck ledger install where the guy lays a couple fat beads of PL over Moistop peel-and stick. Areas like windows, doors, where lath meets wood, etc. I hope this answer is what you were looking for. However, he did say that you need to use a moist stop sealant around your flashing. While Best Review Site for Digital Cameras. If I recall the Gray tape is good till 80-90 MPH. Any compatiblity issue with other sealants used around doors and windows? South African Coating info about dupont straight flash Coating Solutions - 2022 Up-to-date Coating information only on Coating.co.za It is also ideally suited for flashing non-roofing horizontal conditions such as pot shelves, parapets, sill pans and recessed windows. The special adhesive formulation provides a wide application temperature range for . Tyvek doesn't. The WRB on top of the windows should lap the peel and stick and the bottom it should go under the fortiflash. You've requested a page on a website (cloudflarepreview.com) that is on the Cloudflare network. Hence, we had to use window bucks. There are a few other ways to effectively install the forti-flash over the window but we chose this one because we had plenty of Tyvek and it was a small area to cover. 1 day for a second coat and dry time. Watch out: FortiFlash, for example, is not compatible with EPDM [rubber roofing] or flexible (plasticized) Polyvinyl Chloride (PVC) based products. Applying Pressure is Important in Stick-On Flashing Membranes Flashing tapes must be pressed firmly into place to ensure full contact and a good bond. It is the premium self-adhesive waterproof flashing membrane for windows. and the Canadian Construction Materials Centre reported its adhesion to Tyvek at ~1.7lbs . How to buy & use flashing tape or peel and stick housewrap tape to prevent water leakage through building exteriors, cause, cure, prevention. Anon: removing self-adhesive flashing tape can give you a devil of a time if it's well-adhered to a surface. I'm starting to wonder. So it looks like the the windows were installed with reverse lap on the bottom only, under the window buck. is fortiflash compatible with tyvek . ;), That's curious since Moistop is a polyurethane according to their own website.With this info it appears that NP-1 or Sikka could be used:Moistop Sealant; polyurethane, one-component balanced modulus, moisture curing, non-sag elastomeric sealant.IF THIS PRODUCT IS USED IN DIRECT Start your subscription today and save up to 70%. bitumen) products start to lose stickiness at around ISBN-10: 0471648361, ISBN-13: 978-0471648369, Hardcover: 320 pages, available from Amazon.com and also. Then place the top piece of flashing tape over the cap flashing and layer the house wrap over the tape. Should I Repair or Replace an Older Tile Roof. This easy-to-use self-adhered tape helps protect heads and jambs of rectangular windows and doors from intrusion by outdoor air, bulk water and wind-driven rain. Dupont Tyvek Tape Henry 925 BES Sealant Hohmann & Barnard X-SEAL Tape 4 Prosoco R-Guard Joint & Seam Filler (FR7200) Protecto Wrap Detail Tapes Case of 12 Aluminum Butyl Gutter Sealant by DAP 18188. It's also best to not apply caulks and sealants in direct contact with the modified-asphalt membranes, unless they are specifically formulated for that use. Apologies for the delay. Joist tape will protect your substructure from decay to guarantee your foundation lasts as long as your deck. - Rich. Photos by D Friedman & Eric Galow, Galow Homes. perhaps it does have to do with a chemical reaction with tthe tarish sticky stuff.______________________________________________. Composition: 20 mil butyl coated to a synthetic black facer with a tear resistant release liner ; Application Temperature: 30 F to 120 F ; It's compatible because the Moistop Sealant caulking is compatible with all Fortifiber flashing products. They can't get your Goat if you don't tell them where it is hidden. Consult with sealant manufacturer for compatibility information. A huge siding job that we did with our 4 carpenter crew and it took us awhile because we dont do siding all that often but still i think the longest anything was exposed was only about a month.______________________________________________. read more, Before the epidemic, companies and individuals put more emphasis on picture album feeds, but now people are more interested in watching videos.With time, social media sites added functions that enticed more users to join. Normal roofing felt under shingles is absolutely not a water barrier since it is punctured by the roofing nails. The rigid polyvinyl chloride (PVC) used in Roof line issues, nail holes in the tar paper, etc. Thanks. window flanges, however, is generally not a problem. Cmo Revestir y Encintar Una Pared Exterior Con el ZIP System, SawStop's Portable Tablesaw is Bigger and Better Than Before, Podcast 543: Affordable Flooring, Replacing Replacement Windows, and Low-Flow Fans, Podcast 537: Members-only AftershowConversation With Builder Sam Friesen, Balancing Density and Privacy in Los Angeles, Plus, get an extra 20% off with code GIFT20, http://stickwithpl.com/pdf/PL%20WindowDoorSiding.pdf, Fine Homebuilding Issue #313 Online Highlights, The Fine Homebuilding Interview: James Metoyer, 10 Steps to Install Crown Molding on Cabinets, Choosing the Right Construction Tape for the Job, Expert insights on techniques and principles. You are here: bards sublime definition is fortiflash compatible with tyvek FortiFlash is engineered to deliver lasting protection against water intrusion in the most demanding environmental conditions. Our contractor flashed our windows with Henry's FortiFlash. FortiFlashis engineered to deliver lasting protection against water intrusion in the most demanding environmental conditions. [Click to enlarge any image] This photo of flashing tape installed below a window and over the window's bottom flange or fin does not show the very best installation practice. Note: appearance of your Comment below may be delayed: if your comment contains an image, photograph, web link, or text that looks to the software as if it might be a web link, your posting will appear after it has been approved by a moderator. holes, and bond well to a variety of materials, including choice. Many published details show asphalt-rubber flashing from product to product, but generally they address the Henry Residential and Light Commercial Brochure, Henry 1-2-3 Moisture Control System Warranty Brochure, MAWRB-6A-L1 Flanged Window Section Method A - Low wind and water exposure, MAWRB-6A-L2 Flanged Window Sequence Installation Method A - Low wind and water exposure, MAWRB-6A1-L1 Flanged Window Section Method A1 - Low wind and water exposure, MAWRB-6A1-L2 Flanged Window Sequence Installation Method A1 - Low wind and water exposure, MAWRB-6B-L1 Flanged Window Section Method B - Low wind and water exposure, MAWRB-6B-L2 Flanged Window Sequence Installation Method B - Low wind and water exposure, MAWRB-6B1-L1 Flanged Window Section Method B1 - Low wind and water exposure, MAWRB-6B1-L2 Flanged Window Sequence Installation Method B1 - Low wind and water exposure, VPWRB-6A-L1 Flanged Window Section Method A - Low wind and water exposure, VPWRB-6A-L2 Flanged Window Sequence Installation Method A - Low wind and water exposure, VPWRB-6A1-L1 Flanged Window Section Method A1 - Low wind and water exposure, VPWRB-6A1-L2 Flanged Window Sequence Installation Method A1 - Low wind and water exposure, VPWRB-6B-L1 Flanged Window Section Method B - Low wind and water exposure, VPWRB-6B-L2 Flanged Window Sequence Installation Method B - Low wind and water exposure, VPWRB-6B1-L1 Flanged Window Section Method B1 - Low wind and water exposure, VPWRB-6B1-L2 Flanged Window Sequence Installation Method B1 - Low wind and water exposure, VPWRB-6A - P1 Flanged Window Section Method A - Pan flashing at sill, VPWRB-6A - P2 Flanged Window Sequence Installation Method A - Pan flashing at sill, VPWRB-6A1 - P1 Flanged Window Section Method A1 - Pan flashing at sill, VPWRB-6A1- P2 Flanged Window Sequence Installation Method A1 - Pan flashing at sill, VPWRB-6B- P1 Flanged Window Section Method B - Pan flashing at sill, VPWRB-6B- P2 Flanged Window Sequence Installation Method B - Pan flashing at sill, VPWRB-6B1 - P1 Flanged Window Section Method B1 - Pan flashing at sill, VPWRB-6B1- P2 Flanged Window Sequence Installation Method B - Pan flashing at sill, Method A Window Install with WeatherSmart Housewrap, Fortifiber Weatherization with Ty Pennington, Window Installation with Extra Protection at Corners. Get it Dec 20 - 23. Use FastFlash independently or with compatible R-Guard products to prevent the unwanted . under a dark-colored metal flashing exposed to direct sun, Features High performance self-adhesive waterproof flashing membrane Chemically compatible with most standard sealants, as well as EPDM and flexible vinyl Vycor Pro 6 in. Tyvek may resemble paper, but its performance is anything but paper-like. The product is engineered to fit most windows and is manufactured from high-grade plastics that are 100% compatible with self-adhesive flashing and membrane products. It is compatible with cold-applied sealants and its round shape promotes the preferred"hour glass" shape for joint sealants. IMPORTANT: See Quickflash's Electrical Cross Reference Sheet for Box Compatibility CLICK HERE. Areas like windows, doors, where lath meets wood, etc. Udr Association Coleraine, Our photo at page top shows Typar flashing tape installed above a new window. The sealant products listed in the table below were determined to have acceptable chemical compatibility1 with DuPont Tyvek Fluid Applied Products: 1 Testing was conducted by DuPont on products available in the market at the time, between 2004-2014, for DuPont Tyvek Commercial Building Wraps and DuPont Self-Adhered Flashing Products. Compatible? Tyvek and R-Wrap lost about 10% of the soapy water column in 2 hours. Oozing of asphalt tapes is not necessarily a compatibility issue but a temperature issue. formulated for that use. Thank you so much for your help! Self-adhering butyl flashings, like rubberized-asphalt flashings, can have a top layer of either polyethylene or aluminum foil. Any compatibility issues with Zip tape over it? The butyl will absorb the oils in asphalt and lose its adhesion. is the tar paper touching the fortiflash? If anyone has any suggestions? Can someone please clarify this issue? DuPont, for example, has issued a technical bulletin on the compatibility of sealants with Tyvek Weatherization System products, including housewraps and fluid-applied membranes and flashings. caulk/sealent. Rob shows us the last step in the process for prepping a window before sidingEDIT: We've had a couple questions regarding the forti-flash being applied over the tyvek on top. http://stickwithpl.com/pdf/PL%20WindowDoorSiding.pdfI can see the difference between moistop and vulkem, but I wonder where the incompatibility, if any, is exactly. I've had problems with Typar and other tapes coming loose from- OSB sheathing, - even framing lumber if it's not perfectly dry, free from contaminants, and not mill-glazed. The MSDS sheets are found on most websites where the product comes from or I do a google for the product + MSDSIt looks like the solvent in vulkem is Toulene, which if I remember from my painting days,is used in place of xylol when you want faster drying.NP1 has mineral spirits: 2022 BuildingAdvisor.com;All rights reserved. Project Manual for. Methylene diphenyl isocyanate (MDI)Vulkem MSDS: Or see FLASHING MEMBRANE FAQs - questions & answers posted originally at this page. The product's chemical compatibility with most standard sealants - as well as EPDM and flexible vinyl, makes it the ideal choice on . FortiFlash is not compatible with EPDM or flexible (plasticized) Polyvinyl Chloride (PVC) based membranes. stick membranes greatly simplify the task of creating flashing tape, Blueskin SA, Henry Company, 999 North Sepulveda Blvd., Suite 800 Dupont www.construction.tyvek.com StraightFlash and moldable FlexWrap Butyl flashing tapes; Dupont Flashing Systems Manual . Compatible with deck materials including pressure-treated wood and composite products. Stay away from polyurethane caulks. . Contact the company at E-mail: productsupport@henry.com The reverse lap is under the window buck, how much water gets there? is that the company who manufactures fortiflash? FortiFlash is not compatible with some sealants. StraightFlash and moldable FlexWrap Butyl flashing You must be a magazine subscriber to access this feature. is fortiflash compatible with tyvek. The suitability of this Im not sure if its the install or the product. These Below: a PVC door pan flashing from SureSill, https://www.suresill.com/ as sold at Home Depot stores. B16/9926 February 1, 2016 NOTICE INVITING SEALED South African Coating info about waterproof flashing tape home depot Coating Solutions - 2022 Up-to-date Coating information only on Coating.co.za Felt seemed unaffected by soap, still loosing 30% of its water. Box 268 American Fork, Utah 84003-0268 801.763.4520 801.763.4548 (fax) Architect: WPA Architecture 475 North Freedom Blvd. Consult with the products specifications Pay attention to the ends of the cap flashing and make sure they extend slightly past the window molding. is fortifibers fortiflash compatible with duponts tyvek Answered in 14 hours by: Jason, Electrician 5,442 Satisfied Customers I do all of the remodeling projects on my own home. . I don't know much about flashing bucks having never used them, but it makes no sense that the FortiFlash isn't sticking, and it shouldn't need reinforcing with other flashing tape. Self-adhesive, rubberized-asphalt flashing tapes There are some primers you can get that help with adhesion and can staple the edges to keep it in place. thanks KFC. Thanks. The best insurance against water intrusion in residential and commercial construction is the proper installation of the windows and doors with high quality flashing materials. Newcastle General Hospital Abandoned, Dupont Tyvek Tape Henry 925 BES Sealant Hohmann & Barnard X-SEAL Tape 4 Prosoco R-Guard Joint & Seam Filler (FR7200) Protecto Wrap Detail Tapes It's compatible because the Moistop Sealant caulking is compatible with all Fortifiber flashing products. rubberized-asphalt flashing tapes, Sandell Manufacturing Co. I do prefer the Sikaflex though because of the thicker consistency. Hey, Skyecore, are you Skye from PDX HfH? HiCustomer I spoke with Jim (a technical advisor) at Fortifiber, and he said that the Fortiflash product is fine to be used with Dupont's Tyvek. Comparing Instagram Reels to TikTok is a good way to describe it. for tricky applications. an issue. Blog Home Uncategorized is fortiflash compatible with tyvek. Grace Vycor Plus Self-Adhered Flashing 9" x 75' roll provides superior protection against water, air and moisture infiltration in critical detail areas such as window and door openings, corner boards, under stucco finishes, masonry walls and other flashing areas, Do not use on roofs, It is 25 Mil thick and compatible with wood, plywood, oriented strand board, concrete and masonry, Fully . VIEWS. They also market a proprietary sealant. Third line of defence: flashing paper or Fortiflash installed directly on the sheathing before the window is installed. www.protectowrap.com Consult with sealant manufacturer for compatibility information. Your IP: 198.12.249.249, Requested URL: forums.jlconline.com/forums/forum/jlc-online-expert-forums/building-science/40943-peel-and-stick-flashing-compatibility, User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (iPad; CPU OS 15_5 like Mac OS X) AppleWebKit/605.1.15 (KHTML, like Gecko) GSA/219.0.457350353 Mobile/15E148 Safari/604.1. Its strong adhesion makes it a perfect choice for sealing . Jobsite Saw PRO has a wider table, a new dust-control port, and a more versatile fence, along with the same reliable safety mechanism included in all SawStop tablesaws. housewrap that has been exposed to the weather for a Recently, I used Fortiflash and I bought their proprietary sealant. 3 days wait for it to cure. metal, wood, plywood, and vinyl window flanges. we never contacted fortiflash______________________________________________, --> measure once / scribble several lines / spend some time figuring out wich scribble / cut the wrong line / get mad. Whenever I see tarpaper installed like Tyvek I just laugh. B16/9926 February 1, 2016 NOTICE INVITING SEALED He said there are no compatibility issues whatsoever. I have heard tell of that sort of thing. It's compatible because the Moistop Sealant caulking is compatible with all Fortifiber flashing products. Any compatibility issues with Zip tape over it? A unique butyl-based flashing The most important thing to realize is that Compatibility is Key to Proper Window and Door Installation. house explosion manville, nj; cavoodle breeders ontario . 310-955-9200. Just be aware that if you go after Fortiflash/Moistop and admit to using non-Moistop sealant, you may be in for it. OK, to recap, you are saying that the Vulkem melted the face of the Fortiflash and then liquified the backing, causing the drips? so why is toluene not on that msds? Read more. Protecto Wrap Company 1955 South Cherokee Street Denver, CO 80223 Toll Free: 1 (800) 759-9727 Local: (303) 777-3001 Fax: (303) 777-9273 Email: info@protectowrap.com x 75 ft. A better practice laps the . Tyvek and R-Wrap lost about 3% of the cedar-extractive mix in 2-hours, while Felt again lost 30%. Composition: FortiFlash Butyl is composed of a coated woven facer, a butyl adhesive and a paper release liner. It is an excellent addition to Fortifiber's complete moisture control system of weather-resistive barriers, self-adhesive and mechanically-attached flashings, sealant and . Reverse laps tend to be not an issue unless you have reasonable rain and overhangs but should be avoided if you do something silly like no overhangs or open cladding. Get some fresh eyes and a crack at the latest story on Instamber. Some use a more expensive to frequent wetting. 300 Savage Model 99f Value, of rubberized-asphalt tapes recommend that all I always feel like I'm being scammed when I shell out $6 for a tube of caulk just to satisfy their fine print but so far I haven't had the cojones not to.